"old school" or "New school"

[SkZ0_R]

I would like to start off by saying hello everyone. In this thread I will be talking about "Old school" to our "New school" H4x0rs. I would like to make some simple but interesting views on both "arras". parently, to people enamored of the 'old school' of hackers, like Steven Levy or Clifford Stoll, there is a big difference. Indeed, to the 'old style' MIT/Stanford hackers, they resent the bestowal of their honored title on 'those people'(Which I would also, As the SkZ0r) by the media... to many people, 'hacker' is reserved for a class of people in the 60s, a certain 'breed' of programmer who launched the 'computer revolution,' but just can't seem to be found around any more... according to these 'old school' hackers, hacking meant a willingness to make technology accessible and open, a certain 'love affair' with the computer which meant "they would rather code than sleep." It meant a desire to create beauty with computers, to liberate information, to decentralize access to communication...... (How about you All-Nettols? What would you rather do sleep or code? How great is your determination?

Moving on......

What about the 'new' hackers? Many of the 'old' hackers think they don't deserve the name, preferring to call them 'computer criminals,' 'vandals,' 'crackers,' 'miscreants,' or in a purely generational swipe, 'juvenile delinquents.' The media uses the word 'hacker' to refer to young, clever computer users who use their modems to break into systems without authorization, much as depicted in the movie War Games. And the old school hackers resent this. Many of the new hackers aren't good programmers; they are just people without ethics who have no reservations about swiping passwords, codes, software, and other information and trading them with their friends. They may be good at exploiting security holes in systems, but all they succeed in doing (say people like Stoll) is destroying the trust on which open networks are built.I am interested, needless to say, in the generational aspect to this battle over the name 'hacker'. Most of the old hackers of the 60s are of course now living in the *0s - Baby Boomers who, like their ex-hippie friends, went from 'freak' to 'straight,' finding jobs in computer security firms and corporate software conglomerates. And like other counterculturalists from the 60s, they just can't seem to figure out this Generation X forming the counterculture of the *0s... where's the openness? The idealism? These "juvenile delinquents" just don't live up to the high moral standards of the 60s nostalgiacs like Levy and Stoll. But then, Levy rants about those great hackers who founded Apple Computer and launched the PC revolution. Well I would like some input on this topic. See what all of your points of views are. What do you think, who has more "power" who are the greatest h4x0rs out there, the old school originals, or the New school revolution?
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~-I cannot agree with those who rank modesty among the virtues. To the logician all things should be seen exactly as they are, and to underestimate one's self is as much a departure from truth as to exaggerate one's own powers. .~

[jode]

Nice to be from pirates, but not Steal expense of the people
The theme wonderful Thank you

[Moonbat]

Here's a tiny little parable from deep inside me:

Imagine you are sitting in a room. There are no cracks, doors, windows, or other exposures. There is a high-tech security system in place so that if you move a fentometer or more from where you are sitting, you will be electorocuted instantly by the metal floor, which is hooked up flawlessly (remember with no cracks) to millions of wires ready to send millions upon millions of amps of electricity through your body. How do you get out?

Simple. Stop imagining.

Putting ourselves into groups, classes, races, and other such divisions results in nothing but hatred and enmity for the other groups, and a feeling of superiority. I don't see any reason to call myself an 'old-school hacker' or a 'modern hacker'. Putting youself into these divisions doesn't serve any useful purpose whatsoever. If people would stop with the whole "white hat black hat" craze and just come together, we might actually do something useful for the technological community instead of making our little hacking groups, having our little e-wars and debates about what a true hacker is, etc.

[SkZ0_R]

Here's a tiny little parable from deep inside me:

Putting ourselves into groups, classes, races, and other such divisions results in nothing but hatred and enmity for the other groups, and a feeling of superiority. I don't see any reason to call myself an 'old-school hacker' or a 'modern hacker'. Putting youself into these divisions doesn't serve any useful purpose whatsoever. If people would stop with the whole "white hat black hat" craze and just come together, we might actually do something useful for the technological community instead of making our little hacking groups, having our little e-wars and debates about what a true hacker is, etc.

This feeling of 'superiority', is what drives others to learn and to overcome obsticals. The more one knows, the better. The more one knows drives others to learn and to become 'superior' the better.Therefor the learning process is never ending... There will allways be one trying to overcome another and in this process both will be very advanced in there field. Therefor it would be very useful... True h4x0rs put themselves in there own categories, and by me stating, that if one would put themselves in a certain category "Old school/New school" simply meens, what "type" are you. Do you use old "ways" of getting around a certain situation, or would you use newer more modern techniques. There might not be a purpose, but theres a sense of knowing what "type" of "individual" you are. I wont comment on your "If we come together something useful might get done" theory. If you have been around the past (let's say) *0-20 years. You would realize how much more advance the ********* community world has become. Now you tell me this. If 'we', weren't getting together were would the world be? That was a poor sense of judgment on your part.(Think about it). Ok mabey I will talk about your comment. lol . So your telling me nothing "useful" has gotten done in the technological community in the past *0-20 years?... I would like you to be more precise on your "examination" of todays technological community theory.
As for the e-wars and debates, this is what 'we' use as a training tool. The more things that are discussed, and the more they are examined with different points of view. The more more we learn, as well as adapt. Expressing ones views is all but "healthy". As to your " debates about what a true hacker is, etc". Now that I would understand. If a bunch of people getting together talking/debating on what a true hacker is, nothing wouldn't get done you are right, I will agree with you on that point. BUT, those people who do that, only do that cause they are not "l**7" they can't keep up. So they argue over what a true "h4x0r" really is . I true h4x0r dose not argue over over such nonsense. They would simply ignore those individuals and move on to bigger and more useful ideas/points of view. Being a h4x0r is all about learning as much as you can, and adapting to the surroundings that are given. ( Theres more to it then that, but if I were to go on what a h4x0r really is, I would fit in the category in which you talked about ) So I guess I would be contradicting myself.

[Moonbat]

I'm not talking about society, I'm talking about hackers and such of the modern (say, year 2000) age. They find nothing better to do then have little e-wars where everyone "owns" the other person's server, forum, or whatever it may be. I have no doubt of these hackers' skills; they are pretty good, many of them better than me. But what they are using it for is quite stupid.

The point of my statement was that more would get done as far as computer security goes if hackers started doing something together instead of owning each other and updating their Zone-H profiles with new entries. I can say nothing as to what the people before us, like the LOD, MOD, cDc, l0pht, etc. did for the computer security world, because I wasn't there to experience it. But I do know that hackers nowadays aren't as motivated to actually help as they are to brag and show off.

[Ezekiel]

Real hackers don't use the words "h4xor" and "***7", for starters.

[Moonbat]

WH47 d*D u 54y m*k*?? * M 4 L**7 h4X0R, D0'n7 7*LL M*h 7H47 *'m N07 4 l**7 H4X0R ku2 * 74lk *n L**7 4Nd u5* W0RD2 l*K* l**7 4nD H4X0R! *'M *0Nn4 P*N' U 70 D*47h N0w, Ku2 u m4d* M*H 4N*Ry!

[SkZ0_R]

Your sadly mistaken. I am just using these terms for a figure of speech.
What am I supposed to say? Internet security specialist?!? Please,do not tell me how to talk. If you pay attention theres more behind what I say then it seems. I have been in the scene for almost *2 years now. If your trying to imply in a sarcastic way that I'm not a "h4x0r".. Well thats your Prerogative. Couldn't bother me none the least. I have never bragged about being a "h4x0r" . So stop trying to pick a fight with me and we will be fine. Thank you. MOD or not I don't care.

[SkZ0_R]

WH47 d*D u 54y m*k*?? * M 4 L**7 h4X0R, D0'n7 7*LL M*h 7H47 *'m N07 4 l**7 H4X0R ku2 * 74lk *n L**7 4Nd u5* W0RD2 l*K* l**7 4nD H4X0R! *'M *0Nn4 P*N' U 70 D*47h N0w, Ku2 u m4d* M*H 4N*Ry!

I realize your talking to mike but, typing like that... nvm I'll leave it alone.. You figure it out. Starts with 2 and ends with *....
Made you angry? Lol.....


And back to you again Mike. Real hackers? LOL. Your to funny, only if you knew. You sound like a *5 year old.
What are you trying to imply? And if I were you, I would be careful in what you say.... Don't piss off people you do not know/ know there capabilities.
And yes real hackers call themselves l**7 h4x0rs. Here's a little tip for ya MIKE, Try to find "Quake".
Want to see l**7. Thats your place. I have been around for sometime. Been programming and coding since you were a pup. (cause to me you sound like your *4-*7 years old.) So please don't argue with me in any more topics, unless of course it's relevant. You guys should really start listening to what I have to offer. Instead of trying to "outwit" me (you will never win).
Your lucky I am even responding to some of these n00bies questions. No time these days.....

[Moonbat]

I realize your talking to mike but, typing like that... nvm I'll leave it alone.. You figure it out. Starts with 2 and ends with *....
Made you angry? Lol.....


And back to you again Mike. Real hackers? LOL. Your to funny, only if you knew. You sound like a *5 year old.
What are you trying to imply? And if I were you, I would be careful in what you say.... Don't piss off people you do not know/ know there capabilities.
And yes real hackers call themselves l**7 h4x0rs. Here's a little tip for ya MIKE, Try to find "Quake".
Want to see l**7. Thats your place. I have been around for sometime. Been programming and coding since you were a pup. (cause to me you sound like your *4-*7 years old.) So please don't argue with me in any more topics, unless of course it's relevant. You guys should really start listening to what I have to offer. Instead of trying to "outwit" me (you will never win).
Your lucky I am even responding to some of these n00bies questions. No time these days.....

R yoo a hakr??

EDIT: You haven't been on these ***rds long enough to understand our sarcasm and sense of humor.

[Ezekiel]

Your sadly mistaken. I am just using these terms for a figure of speech.
What am I supposed to say? Internet security specialist?!? Please,do not tell me how to talk. If you pay attention theres more behind what I say then it seems. I have been in the scene for almost *2 years now. If your trying to imply in a sarcastic way that I'm not a "h4x0r".. Well thats your Prerogative. Couldn't bother me none the least. I have never bragged about being a "h4x0r" . So stop trying to pick a fight with me and we will be fine. Thank you. MOD or not I don't care.

What has being a moderator got to do with this? It doesn't give me any sort of privileges in winning arguments.

Maybe you've missed the news, but words like "***7" and "h4xor" and only used mockingly/sarcastically these days.

I realize your talking to mike but, typing like that... nvm I'll leave it alone.. You figure it out. Starts with 2 and ends with *....
Made you angry? Lol.....

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humour[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm[/url]

And back to you again Mike. Real hackers? LOL. Your to funny, only if you knew. You sound like a *5 year old.

*6, actually. Check my profile.

Close guess though.

What are you trying to imply? And if I were you, I would be careful in what you say.... Don't piss off people you do not know/ know there capabilities.

Oh noes, an e-threat. The fact that you've been calling me "Mike" indicates that you know absolutely nothing about me.

I'm really not looking for a fight though, and I don't see your problem at all. How about we continue this debate here like adults instead of resorting to [whatever you have planned to piss me off]?

And yes real hackers call themselves l**7 h4x0rs. Here's a little tip for ya MIKE, Try to find "Quake".

Whatever you say.

Want to see l**7. Thats your place. I have been around for sometime. Been programming and coding since you were a pup. (cause to me you sound like your *4-*7 years old.)

You probably have, yet a *6-year-old can antagonise you to this point on an internet-forum.

So please don't argue with me in any more topics, unless of course it's relevant. You guys should really start listening to what I have to offer. Instead of trying to "outwit" me (you will never win).

I don't know if you've been living in a parallel universe or something, but it looks like we already have,

As far as "listening to what you have to offer", we will listen if what you say is coherent and correct, and relevant to the current topic.

Your lucky I am even responding to some of these n00bies questions. No time these days.....

To be honest, you sound like you've just read this article:

[url]http://www.adequacy.org/stories/200*.*2.2.42056.2*47.html[/url]

You know, I'm inclined to say this is one of our members posting under a new alias; trying to provoke an argument out of us.

[Moonbat]

Mike, DON'T PROVOKE HIM!! He's a real hacker! I just got on my home computer and realized that I left my frickin' taquitos in the microwave! SkZ0_R has mind powers I tell you! He can hack into our minds and make us forget stuff!

Now I only have 5 burnt taquitos and some apple juice to eat until dinner time, all because of SkZ0_R. CURSE YOU!!!

[SkZ0_R]

R yoo a hakr??

EDIT: You haven't been on these ***rds long enough to understand our sarcasm and sense of humor.

I do not call myself a "hacker". I simply do what I "do"...

[Moonbat]

I do not call myself a "hacker". I simply do what I "do"...

Hey, do you mind if I quote most of your posts here, put them in a text file and upload them to MegaUpload? I need points to get a Premium download account. People have to download my stuff so I get points, so I want them to download your wisdom so this way I can get points and they can get wisdom.

If I make it to *00,000 points, I'll give you a fourth of the profits, i.e. $25, because at *00,000 points you get a premium account for a year plus $*00, so me and you can go in the business.

Hit me up with a PM if you're interested.

[SkZ0_R]

What has being a moderator got to do with this? It doesn't give me any sort of privileges in winning arguments.

Maybe you've missed the news, but words like "***7" and "h4xor" and only used mockingly/sarcastically these days.

...

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humour[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm[/url]

*6, actually. Check my profile.

Close guess though.

....... <again>.....

Oh noes, an e-threat. The fact that you've been calling me "Mike" indicates that you know absolutely nothing about me.

I was just referring to you as mike cause thats your alias.
I'm really not looking for a fight though, and I don't see your problem at all.

How about we continue this debate here like adults instead of resorting to [whatever you have planned to piss me off]?

I'm not.. This topic got off hand loong ago.


'Whatever you say'.

You probably have, yet a *6-year-old can antagonize you to this point on an internet-forum.

antagonise *antagonize*

I don't know if you've been living in a parallel universe or something, but it looks like we already have,

As far as "listening to what you have to offer", we will listen if what you say is coherent and correct, and relevant to the current topic.

To be honest, you sound like you've just read this article:

[url]http://www.adequacy.org/stories/200*.*2.2.42056.2*47.html[/url]

I have never seen that article in my life.

You know, I'm inclined to say this is one of our members posting under a new alias; trying to provoke an argument out of us.

Sorry no I'm not.. I have never heard of this site before. I'm not under no new "alias"... Why you have had problems in the past? Sorry I have been using the same Alias for the past * years.